#459 Hey, Liberals. Don't Shame the Other Side: Erica Etelson

Writer, depolarization activist, and former human rights attorney, Erica Etelson, is a committed liberal who works with fellow leftists on how to communicate more effectively with moderates and conservatives across lines of difference. As we hear in this lively and revealing episode, some of her strongest criticisms about style and strategy are aimed at her own side.

We explore what Erica Etelson learned from Braver Angels members and others about how to listen respectfully and passionately across deep political divides without understating or downplaying one's beliefs and ideas. She believes that when liberals ridicule or shame those who they disagree with they lose votes and support for their cause.

Her book is “Beyond Contempt: How Liberals Can Communicate Across The Great Divide”. As co-founder and Board President of The Rural Urban Bridge Initiative, Erica develops strategies to build trust and open hearts and minds in unexpected ways.

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#458 Braver Teens. What Happens When We Really Listen: Mary Thomas-Vallens

Lifelong educator and Braver Angels volunteer Mary Thomas-Vallens gets more hopeful about America’s political future when she’s working with teens.

“I’m fired up every time I talk to them,” she tells How Do We Fix It?. “I am their biggest cheerleader.”

In this episode we also hear from Braver Teens, the youngest members of the bridging movement that works to depolarize politics and work across rigid divides. “They’re showing incredible courage because they’re stepping away from the outrage”, says Mary. They’re “acting instead of silencing themselves”. Young people can also bring remarkable passion, energy, and social media savvy to campaigns and events.

We discuss how members of Braver Angels can learn from teenagers, and what high school students get from working with adults.  In a time of deep partisan divisions, cancel culture, and online shaming, how can 15, 16, and 17-year-olds help adults change our definition of citizenship? 

We hear from Jenna Freeman, Seraphine Chen, and Mia Dougherty, three of the Braver Teens who made presentations at the most recent Braver Angels National Convention. They are planning to set up a new website to help other teens set up workshops and discussion groups at their high schools.

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#457 Busting Out of Your Bubble. How Wesley Warshawer Did It

IIn 2017, data analyst Wesley Warshawer was shocked by a poll that said 50% of Americans supported Donald Trump, about half lived with a gun their home, and a third believed in a literal reading of The Book of Genesis.

This didn’t match the views of anyone he knew in Silicon Valley, California. What he read about our country's deep divides led him to sell his apartment in San Jose and spend 18 months living in some of the most conservative parts of America.

What he found was that most people across the country, from right wing conservatives to lefty liberals live by a similar ethical code. “I was so shocked to find that we were so similar”, Wesley told us. To his surprise, the bubbles in California and in rural America turned out to be quite alike.

In this episode we explore whether Americans are a lot less divided and more friendly than we’ve been told. We consider what can be learned about America when we listen and acknowledge people with different political beliefs. We also discuss this provocative question: Do Braver Angels and other groups in the bridging community have it wrong about how polarized we are?

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#455 Can Democrats and Republicans Learn To Listen? Patricia Higgins & Doug Teschner

Here’s something many Democrats and Republicans agree on: The way we debate and discuss politics is messed up. We talk past each other instead of getting things done. Huge amounts of time and money are wasted on bickering and bravado. Neither political party has built a lasting coalition to deal with the most urgent problems of the day. 

In this podcast we look something local and practical: New Hampshire’s experiment in bi-partisan cooperation. Dozens of state legislators are part of the nation’s first Braver Angels-inspired cross partisan caucus where elected officials put aside political combat and learn skills of cooperation. 

Our guests are Democrat Patricia Higgins and Republican Doug Teschner. Patricia served in the New Hampshire House of Representatives from 2012 to 2018. Doug is also a former state legislator, and co-author of the recent book, “Beyond the Politics of Contempt: Practical Steps to Build Positive Relationships in Divided Times.”

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#454 Exact Same Place. Very Different Viewpoints. Chauncey Williams & Maryanne Colter

Here’s the bad news about civic renewal: It will not come easily or quickly. Toxic divides won’t be dramatically reduced because of one person or a dramatic election result. Renewal of America’s civic culture will require enormous effort in every state of the nation.

Now the good news. Everyone can make a difference. Participation in renewal requires neither money nor fame. It begins with all of us. Locally and often through one-on-one conversations. These personal encounters can change hearts and minds.

Our guests are Braver Angels volunteers Maryanne Colter and Chauncey Williams. Both of them embrace civic renewal in their communities.

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#453. Hope Resilience and Citizenship. Yuval Levin

“Braver Angels events always leave me hopeful and energized,” says Yuval Levin of the recent Convention in Philadelphia.

“A lot of people from different parts of our politics, from different parts of our country, from different parts of our economy come together and express a a kind of conviction that ultimately our country matters more than our parties, and our country matters more than ideological convictions.”

In this wide-ranging conversation with one of America’s most admired public intellectuals, we discuss the resilience of the American constitutional system, the impact of attention politics, and the need for constructive disagreement and courageous citizenship at a time of toxic divides.

“The American political tradition speaks in the first person plural in a really beautiful way and speaks in the voice of a people taking a kind of common ownership of their future together,” he says.

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#452. They Disagree Better on Immigration Reform: Diego Sanchez & Jim Robb

Immigration law reform and enforcement is a very heated and emotional issue. In recent years, no public policy has been discussed with more outrage, demonization, and disgust. Both sides of the immigration debate demand total victory. But their all-or-nothing approach has resulted in nothing. No major immigration reform legislation has been signed into law in three decades.

Perhaps it’s time for less emotion and more respect for different points of view. The Braver Angels Citizens Commission on Immigration is working to show Congress and the nation that Americans with differing views on immigration can find common ground. The Commission includes includes citizens from all sides of the issue.

Our expert guests in this episode come from opposing sides of the debate. They work closely together and are now friends. Jim Robb and Diego Sanchez are on the leadership team of the Commission, and served as co-chairs at the recent Braver Angels National Convention in Philadelphia.

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#451 Braver Angels 2026 Convention Report and Reactions From Delegates

Something remarkable happened in Philadelphia, days before America celebrated its 250th birthday and streets away from where the Declaration of Independence was signed. Nearly 900 Braver Angels delegates at their Convention signed a pledge to be courageous citizens.

Being a courageous citizen stands in proud contrast to easy citizenship. In America’s current culture of contempt, it’s courageous to build, not destroy.

In this episode we hear from delegates, convention organizers and conference speakers, including two Members of Congress: Democrat Tom Suozzi and Republican Brian Fitzpatrick. Both Congressmen warmly praised Braver Angels for the work it does.

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