“Our political leaders— left, right, and center— have a thin view of citizenship,” says Braver Angels co-founder Bill Doherty. He argues that everything from healthcare and education to public safety and politics “is the work of we the people. That’s the robust idea of citizenship…Ultimately the big problems are those of all of us”

This episode features an interview recorded for “Derate The Hate”, a podcast hosted by Wilk Wilkinson in collaboration with Braver Angels, the nationwide movement that brings citizens together across political divides, and pushes back against grievance, outrage and toxic polarization.

As Wilk writes in his show notes about this interview: “This is not about partisan politics—it’s about restoring a sense of shared responsibility in our communities through intentional dialogue and real problem-solving.”

Bill and Wilk discuss a new definition of citizenship and other topics, including how structured conversations can transform toxic divides, and why personal accountability is essential in civic life.

What do you think of people who you totally disagree with about politics? Can you listen to their point of view and have a constructive conversation? Do you dismiss the other side as evil or deplorable?

In this episode we hear from Wilk Wilkinson, a Christian conservative who voted for Donald Trump. He has working class roots and grew up poor. A decade ago Wilk was enraged at liberals, but today he’s working closely with both reds and blues at Braver Angels to turn down the volume on loathing and distrust.

“There’s no reason why I can’t have civil conversations with people on the blue side”, says Wilk. “We cannot get stuck in this idea that just because politically we don’t see eye-to-eye we are enemies.”